Recently there has been lots of talk about Startpage being acquired (or at least partially acquired) by a US company called Privacy One Group, which is a division of System1, a “data science” company that specializes in targeted advertising.
A reddit post titled, “Startpage is now owned by an advertising company” kicked off an interesting discussion that prompted many to consider alternatives.
This article will examine my findings from researching these developments with Startpage, System1, and the “Privacy One Group”. It will also explain why Startpage is no longer recommended by Restore Privacy.
Who owns Startpage now?
The exact answer to this question is not entirely clear – and it seems that is intentional.
In September 2019, Startpage posted an announcement where they explained (archived),
We most recently welcomed Privacy One Group Ltd, a privacy-focused division that is a separate operating unit of System1 LLC, as a significant new shareholder. Surfboard Holding’s founders and management continue to own an important stake in the company and lead its privacy focused-mission.
This vague statement raises many questions about the exact ownership structure and what “important stake” truly means. System1 and the “Privacy One Group” are apparently operating out of the US, while Surfboard Holding BV is a company in The Netherlands.
Here is the System1 leadership from their Who We Are page, with Michael Blend now sitting on the board of Surfboard Holding BV (as we’ll examine further below):
Also concerning is that the Privacy Policy of Startpage makes no reference to the new ownership structure and continues to suggest it is strictly a Dutch company.
Startpage.com is owned and operated by Startpage BV, Postbus 1079, 3700 BB Zeist, The Netherlands.
There is no mention of System1 or the Privacy One Group, the members of which now hold an “important stake” in Startpage. Questions about the exact ownership structure have gone unanswered, aside from general statements.
But before digging deeper, let’s cover some basics.
When “privacy tools” don’t respect your privacy
One theme we’ve often discussed here at Restore Privacy is the growing trend of data collection that is carried out through cleverly-marketed “privacy tools”. Three examples illustrating this trend are:
- Browser extensions that collect data for third parties, effectively functioning as spyware.
- Free VPN services that collect data that is sold/transferred to third parties, or used by the parent company for targeted ads.
- Various “security” apps in the Google Play and Apple stores that are riddled with malware and tracking libraries.
We’ve also noticed various privacy tools that are bought up by outside companies, which may have a fundamentally different mission and business model. One example is with CyberGhost, a Romanian VPN service that was purchased by Crossrider, a company that produces malware for data collection.
How does this relate to System1 and the creation of the “Privacy One Group” that was used to acquire Startpage?
What is System1 and the “Privacy One Group”?
There appears to be very little information about the “Privacy One Group”.
While some are suggesting that this entity may be just a facade of privacy for the parent company System1, I’m not going to speculate. Ultimately, we don’t know much about the company – and neither Startpage, nor System1, nor Privacy One Group are offering these details.
Based on quotes from System1 leadership, it appears that the parent company (System1) is heavily involved in data collection and targeted advertising. Below are a few quotes, emphasis is mine.
“Our philosophy,” [Michael] Blend explains, “is that someone may want a product or service but has not yet done a formal search … we call that latent intent, intent that has not yet been demonstrated … we identify that in consumers based on a large variety of proprietary data.”
“In our business,” Blend adds, “if we can gather as much data as possible, give it off to our engineers and data scientists, and then manage the two effectively, the business can quickly scale.”
The keywords from above are “gather as much data as possible” to identify consumer intent.
System1 is a consumer internet and applications company with the most powerful audience expansion platform in the industry. As one of the largest purchasers of digital advertising in the world, we are redefining user acquisition through paid marketing and are able to attract new audiences at scale for our properties and our partners. Our proprietary best-in-class buy/sell technology platform leverages our advanced data science capabilities and strategic partnerships. Founded in 2013, the company is headquartered in Venice, CA, with additional offices in the U.S., Canada and the UK and has over 275 employees.
Data collection and advertising go hand-in-hand, just ask Google – or the people behind System1. From the Los Angeles Business Journal:
System1 uses statistical and machine-learning models to group consumers into thousands of audience profiles, which then are used to match those consumers with relevant advertising, said Chuck Ursini, chief executive of the firm, in an email.
“A search engine typically determines consumer intent when a consumer enters a search term into a search box. However, less than 5 percent of time online is spent searching at a search engine,” Ursini said. “Our pre-targeting algorithms work by identifying consumer intent the other 95 percent of the time online.”
And lastly, from a Biz Journals article:
System1 raises $270 million for ‘consumer intent’ advertising
Silicon Beach ad-tech firm System1 has closed $270 million in financing.
Founded in 2013, the Venice, California-based company, formerly known as OpenMail, is an independent marketplace for keyword pay-per-click advertising.
System1 has developed a pre-targeting platform that identifies and unlocks consumer intent across channels including social, native, email, search, market research and lead generation rather than relying solely on what consumers enter into search boxes.
The round was led by Court Square Capital Partners, a New York middle-market private equity firm.
Startpage originally bragged about how their users would not be targeted based on data profiling. Instead, Startpage would server ads based only on what the user entered into the search box. As a business model, System1 appears to do the opposite.
Board member changes at Surfboard Holding BV
Public records show that both Michael Blend (co-founder of System1) and John Paul Civantos (Managing Partner at Court Square Capital) joined the Surfboard Holding board of directors on December 31, 2018.
English translation of corporate records:
So here we have an investor from New York and the co-founder of System1 sitting on the board of directors for Surfboard Hoalding BV, the parent company of Startpage. Ian Weingarten is currently the CEO of System1 and Robert Beens is the CEO of Startpage.
Also notice that this change happened on December 31, 2018. Yet Startpage’s leadership did not make any announcement of this change until October 2019, where they described it as a “most recent” change. I do not think that a nine-month delay is a “most recent” development.
Why did they wait so long to tell people?
Can Startpage, System1, and the “Privacy One Group” be trusted with your privacy?
Short answer: you decide.
Choosing privacy tools is a subjective process and everyone has their own unique needs and threat model. When making this decision, you should examine the facts and assess whether a product or service meets your needs.
With that being said, my general rule here at Restore Privacy is to only recommend products and services that I would personally trust and use myself. Therefore I will not be recommending Startpage as a private search engine due to some lingering concerns I have. These concerns include:
- The fact that System1 has acquired a stake in Startpage and is not disclosing the details.
- The history and business model of System1, which includes gathering “as much data as possible” and profiling users for targeted ads.
- The board of directors change at Surfboard Holding BV, to appoint the System1 co-founder and an outside investor.
- The nine-month delay in alerting the public to these changes, and then announcing it as a “most recent” change.
- The contradictory business models of System1 and a truly private search engine.
There are some in the privacy community calling System1 a “surveillance company” – but I will avoid any speculation and simply focus on the facts. I see no evidence that System1, the Privacy One Group, or Startpage are violating any of their own policies or laws.
In preparation for this article, I asked Startpage to provide answers and clarification on the following items:
- The percent of Startpage and Surfboard Holding B.V. (the Startpage holding company) System1 acquired in December 2018.
- The current percent ownership by System1 at the time of the audit (and any other major owners).
- Information about Privacy One Group Ltd. Where is it registered, and in what city, state and country does it operate? Who are the owners? How exactly is it connected to System1 and the people behind System1?
- A diagram of data flows, including flows to outside organizations, like System1, Privacy One etc.
Startpage has not answered any of these questions. I will continue to monitor the situation and update this article and my recommendations based on new information.
Startpage is no longer being recommended in the private search engines guide. It has also been removed from the list of Google search alternatives and privacy tools.
Similarly, PrivacyTools.io has also delisted Startpage, as they explained here.
Final thoughts
Startpage’s About us page still warns users about the dangers of data collection and how this gives data collectors the ability to “virtually own you.”
Problem is, the new board members and owners of Startpage are literally in the business of gathering “as much data as possible.”
See my updated guide on the best private search engines for the latest recommendations.
Update: Startpage offers further clarification
Just two days after posting this article, Startpage released two new support articles:
- What is Startpage’s relationship with Privacy One/System1 and what does this mean for my privacy protections?
- Startpage CEO Robert Beens discusses the investment from Privacy One / System1
In short, these articles confirm what we suspected, that System1 has majority ownership in Startpage, through their subsidiary the “Privacy One Group”. This is no surprise, especially given the changes to Surfboard Holding’s board.
The new articles posted by Startpage include statements from Robert Beens (CEO, Startpage), Michael Blend (Chairman, System1), and Ian Weingarten (CEO, System1). These statements attempt to restore faith in Startpage’s privacy protections and policies. Whether you want to trust these claims or not is your decision.
At the end of the day, an American ad-tech company that seeks to “gather as much data as possible” is still the majority owner of Startpage, a search engine that could be used to collect data.
Hello Brian and Sven
To answer the question below regarding the “Ads” appearing on Ghostery, it’s alright. I’ve seen this too. Don’t worry, it’s NOT startpage.com (or System1) tracking you. This is part of Ghostery’s “Enhanced Ad Blocking” being on (which can also include visual frames, banners, pop-ups, etc. and sometimes, unfortunately, the likes of login menus).
I’ve also seen the same thing on the Reddit site, and other sites, for four or less ads.
You don’t need to report this to Ghostery, Cliqz or startpage.com. Just let Ghostery do it’s job.
Make sure in the Ghosery settings, all the opt in / out boxes are UNTICKED (unless, of course, you want to opt in to those services and are fine with your information being sent back to Ghostery / Cliqz.).
Besides, is it not better for these sites NOT to know that items they put up are being blocked and not annoying you, or profiling you, or following you around, rather than reporting it to them and then they re-code the items, or, possibly, pay companies like Ghostery, to get around blockers and have them annoying you or, possibly, tracking and profiling you?
Don’t worry excessively about this and just let your browser extensions do their job of keeping you as private as possible. You get on with enjoying the internet!
Hello Sven
Could you advise on something, if possible, on Startpage.com, or could you please find out?
I’ve noticed recently that in Ghostery, the circle is purple, “Request Modified” and it is blocking an “unknown” tracker from “startpage.com”, and then below it a small blue circle with a line through the circle and beside the circle a certain number of “Ads”, sometimes 1 Ad, sometimes 2 Ads, sometimes as much as 4 Ads.
It doesn’t happen on all searches, just some.
Is this a false positive from Ghostery and nothing to worry about , or, considering the controversy over System1, is this someing more malicious, that even the management of startpage.com may not know about?
I don’t want to cause worry or alarm in the privacy arena, or destroy startpage.com’s reputation any more that it has been damaged,, but if someone could please explain this.
Many thanks.
(I’ve tried to put up a screen shot here, but I cannot).
Hey Brian, not sure on that one to be honest. But you could email Startpage to see what they say.
Not sure who the comment below is commenting on – “1&1”? – but since October, has anyone had any evidence or proof that startpage.com is breaking its privacy policy or that user personal information has gone to System1 or Privacy One Group Ltd?
Even Sven has not kept up-to-date with the news – that Wire has been sold to a U.S. company in early December, but is still being recommended in the “Secure Messenger” category and that searx.me has been offline for a few weeks now.
> Even Sven has not kept up-to-date with the news – that Wire has been sold to a U.S. company in early December, but is still being recommended in the “Secure Messenger” category and that searx.me has been offline for a few weeks now.
Hey Stephen, Searx.me links have been removed from most of the site now, and today I added an update to that section of the private search engines guide to clarify the latest issues with Searx. My top two private search engines are now MetaGer and Swisscows, since Searx is recommending various public instances run by third parties, which are not verified or audited to not keep logs.
Regarding Wire, I did follow the news, but did not hit the “panic” button as so many people in the privacy community are quick to do. Wire remains a Swiss company under Switzerland jurisdiction that is open source and has also been independently audited. And I’d still recommend Wire over Signal, which requires a phone number and is based in the US. So yes, I’ve been following the news, and I still use (and recommend) Wire.
If interested-
Company 1 & 1 was fined by the top data protection officer for 9.6 million euros, not exactly a gift for the company. The company did not protect users’ data well enough, and this was seen as a systematic violation of the new data protection rules.
1 & 1 is not even the highest fine that was imposed. The highest amount had to be paid by the real estate company Deutsche Wohnen, an amount of 14.5 million euros. Before the new data protection regulation, a fine of a maximum of 300,000 euros was possible, while today it is 20 million euros or four percent of the annual turnover achieved worldwide, which would mean eight billion euros at Apple.
After all, data is what makes us special, it shows who we are and that is why it must be protected.
Source:
https://awiebe.org/bussgelder-gegen-datenschutz/
Wow, thanks. That was actually quite insightful. Very interesting that virtually nobody wrote anything about the Startpage takeover. I incidentally stumbled over somebody’s tweet on a completely different topic and found your quite well researched article.
@Sven
I was juat thinking. We have had multiple posts about SwissCows. Maybe an indepth review would be good to help for more info?
I know you are busy but just a thought.
It’s a NSA front.
So said several independent insider sources.
Nothing controversial about it. Very clear-cut.
What Sources ?
I am confused AF. Normally, your article’s aren’t convoluted and have very little “noise”.
but here the focus on StartPage. From the end user, I need to know very little about StartPage except the basics. What I need to know which VPN providers are affected by these guys.
Most recently, there was a change with PIA. I have no idea if this StartPage has anything to do with things or not. And what happened to the comment’s section of PIA?
In summary, let’s keep things simple please. Too much information can be both good and bad. In this article, the information is not only overwhelming but not an easy read.
This article doesn’t get into VPNs at all because Startpage doesn’t have anything to do with VPNs. The recent news about Kape Technologies (formerly Crossrider) acquiring Private Internet Access is a separate issue people are discussing in the comments.
“what happened to the comment’s section of PIA?”
The site has had many problems with the comment form being broken for some posts that allow for users to leave star ratings (such as with VPN reviews). Long story short we got it fixed last week and all comments are appearing as normal like before.
UPDATE: Ok, I see this is broken again, with random reviews having comments not appearing. Working on this yet again…
Hi Sven , I have big problem my vpn dialog not work looking data traffic is virus ? Is about stratpage? I did use Malwarebytes and Emsisoft but problem is standing!!
Also tor browser not connect you think perhaps adware or some looking that? With many powerful antiviruses nothing find !!
Is new hidden viruses comeback in our world? Is new generation of metadata coming back???
Or is about apps ?? To this different security tools »» apps are safe (after scan )
I use android
Thanks a lot
@harden
First what do you want? To run down the problem and/or tie it to Startpage advising others? As your the second one that has seen android malware and associating it – as they also were using the Startpage app on device too.
A good choice in a distribution source of your app’s is the first defense against malware – you should understand this and use direct source of developers.
Second, there are tooooo many variables with the Android platform to start !
Factory/Custom Roms, root access and ability to tinker with – than you have of Windows and Macs platforms they allow.
That’s not something Restore Privacy does and covers here hacking the OS.
Go to XDA developers forum and in your device specific section.
Ask your questions there for help and understanding.
You can read there usually about how to Reflash (clean flash not dirty flash) the current factory firmware released for your device – back on the device to start over in a factory clean state again. This rids any malware from your device it may have.
Good luck.
You may have removed StartPage from the list of recommended privacy-oriented search engines but some of the others still listed point to StartPage in their descriptions.
Thanks.
@HardSell
I have to respond here as a reply button was not present.
I do not see a filter or anything to adjust it. I am sure one can pull up filth if attempted by broad key words or general searching but it does do good for the most part if you are searching specifics.
I do wish it was a little more strict but it is better than not. I wonder if FF has a filter as well?
But no problems. I did not take you in any wrong way.
That’s all good J.M.
Thank you for the update, not as strong in their details as to the protections as I’d hoped for kids.
But maybe it filters out by keywords found it the texts rendered, and uses site blacklists to cleanse the results as well.
*The mobile side of Restore Privacy has worked for me in a reply made when I had trouble from a desktop – possibly as you.
@HardSell
I agree. Wish it was stronger but it is better than what I have seen elsewhere.
As far as the blacklist, you may be right.
I am using a mobile, LOL. I seem to have found the reply buttons again. Not sure what happened.
“PrivacyTools.io has also delisted Startpage”, thanks for the info and link. But, hey did you see that Jonah Aragon has just posted (20/11/2019) on his PrivacyTools blog a new article “The Trouble with VPN and Privacy Review Sites” where you can see a RestorePrivacy ‘Best VPNs’ screenshot, arguing that “…these recommendations are coupled with a “review” that is supposedly independent and unbiased, but in reality are simply more marketing tools to persuade you towards their opinions…”. He’s just insinuating that RestorePrivacy is another “easy way to guide users to a certain choice… that will make the reviewers the most money”. I was very disappointed with these allegations which I consider as false, as a long time and devoted reader of RestorePrivacy.
Yep, I saw that and even emailed him. PrivacyTools.io has really become opinionated lately.
Also note that PrivacyTools.io was recommending these same VPNs just a few months ago, and now they’re attacking me for doing the same:
http://archive.is/I7ynn
Hi bobzr,
What that saying , ‘bad PR’ is still publicity you couldn’t buy.
A place on the map anyways – even if the location isn’t correct and the signage reads a different occupation.
The author, Jonah Aragon clearly hasn’t spent any time on this site to know any better than this, and with grouping the Restore Privacy site by any means to a batch of review sites – bias for profit shows.
He’s not been here other than to judge Sven and the site wrongly.
Sven’s the chief cook and dishwasher around here and it doesn’t even show.
What shows through clearly is Sven’s class act of reporting and his hands on research, and testing with the bills all falling on his shoulders alone to get the facts out.
SHOWS of his personal dedication to advocate for your PERSONAL ONLINE PRIVACY.
Besides I’ve seen Sven state, he’s not going to be recommending anything he not used and wouldn’t continue to use.
You can’t get personal test results without testing.
As to you can’t understand Restore Privacy with an bias intent.
This guy’s who writes, probably has but one job where he’s at, and a little shock and awe gets him page hits. Not impressed with his hype as it’s old news for me in covering any hype about VPN review sites…
It’s also rather funny, since PrivacyTools.io was recommending the same VPNs just a few months ago as me:
http://archive.is/I7ynn
But now they apparently a problem with me recommending the same VPNs they endorsed a few months back.
It seems a bit unfair from PrivacyTools.io site to mention your website along with the group of the “best vpn reviews” sites. At least, they could read your articles and contact you in advance!
I think that Restore Privacy is a great and honest source of information and I have recommended it to many of my friends and family members. Moreover, here you state your opinion by being very clear and open on the tests you implement for VPN reviews. You are one of the few web sources where you mention and cite clearly your sources of information when writing articles and guides which is very much appreciated.
I guess that PrivacyTools.io could be able to verify my opinion. In this respect, they should feel free to participate in the comments and would be constructive to share their opinion and somehow help the community to take more informed decisions.
Sven,
I see the whole framework of advocating for online personal privacy is not a self-supportive one, but depends in it’s openness for community support.
Clearly all site owners in the realm of doing so for the public good – know this…
There are bills being generated and must be relieved to exist in having presents online.
Then because it’s advertising in a fashion (exchange of knowledge) and has labeled Pro’s and Con’s in research results and/or in a numbered placement over the lesser choice options of the research.
Oh, yes and has the price visible and a link to the source it’s an AD.
– A biased AD only to get you to click through on it – crap on that mentality. Exactly how do you to present it then ???
As it’s a true review tying all the loose ends together and to completely informing readers of the best mentioned by the tested-out results in an hands on findings of a personal review.
That’s what is found here on RestorePrivacy.com
That’s why they (privacy advocacy sites) call for donations and contributions from readers somewhere in the site to help keep the site open – adding new content.
What fails me is he only went after the (so-called) bias VPN’s review sites and used an image in his write up found here on the RP site. Copyright’s infringement ?
There is more online cancer eating up peoples privacy’s to worry about – really than this poor excuse in trying to label your site wrongly.
Is it a shake down for RP to donate pt or they’ll name names next?
What really was the motivation of the author and his bosses ?
Hang in there – Sir
Not sure of the motivation, HardSell, as I’ve never said anything negative about PTIO or their community.
Hi Sven,
Being opinionated as they are, possibly as in the BBB roll to duly self-regulation, to regulate in their own way as the global spokes person over the rest who serve the same purpose as they do – getting the knowledge out – – yep…
Who gave them the position to be roll leader more or less a global voice in it all.
One voice alone is not enough as many voices are a concert of the same ideal till actions takes place. That’s what happens usually.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Better_Business_Bureau
Thing or point is Restore Privacy coverage is more than VPN’s.
Privacy Guides:
-Privacy Tools
-Secure Email Services
-Secure Web Browsers
-Firefox Privacy
-Private Search Engines
-5/9/14 Eyes Explained
Off-topic:
Would Wire (messaging platform) still be recommended by Restore Privacy following its recent acquisition by a US company?
Similar to Startpage, it looks like Wire accepted some outside funding, but it is still an official entity operating in Switzerland and falling under Swiss law. It is not a “US company” and still remains one of the best options. Signal is also a good option, but requires phone registration and is indeed under a US company (completely under US jurisdiction, unlike Wire).
Hope to see a similar write-up on the Wire situation.
I’m not disappointed in Startpage; I’m disappointed in this site for its coverage of Startpage, as well as the broader privacy community for the reactions.
It’s very common and expected in a merger to have non-disclosure provisions in the contract. Startpage SHOULDN’T disclose a bunch of internal details about its business.
Now, I will grant that on the surface it seems unusual why System1 would start a privacy division and invest in Startpage. But ultimately, companies are in business to make money, and the fact that they see a market for privacy is NOT a bad thing.
The only pertinent information is that the tech has not changed at all the founders of Startpage remain in control of privacy decisions: something they clearly explained would continue. As such, I personally will continue to use Startpage and recommend it to everyone.
Hi Lewis,
Privacy of individuals is a broad term, but it is not hard to imagine that it includes the online privacy of an individual in todays world.
To those general statements of your opinion, are they good for you when privacy (your own online privacy) is in the forefronts focused view?
If anyone’s online personal privacy were looked at as chickens and eggs in the hen house of Startpage, your sayings it’s NOW ok, to employ the fox to stand guard over them.
“on the surface it seems unusual why System1 would start a privacy division and invest in Startpage.” The fox mentioned above = System1.
If reading Sven’s article word for word, hasn’t filled in blanks that you’d give any meaning to the definition of ‘unusual’ – as it’s business done as usual for System1 against users privacy.
Most search engines can, and do, collect personal information about their users according to their own privacy policies.
This user data could be anything from location information to cookies, IP addresses, search query histories, click-through history, and online fingerprints.
What search engines often do once they have collected information about a user’s habits is create a profile of them – for the purpose in a companies monetary gain.
Startpage WAS seen to be the best for suppressing the collection and profiling, as masking searches to appear unlinkable and indistinguishable for users wanting of it’s search engine privacy.
Why is Anti-data collection desired?
A few reasons would be the following.
– This collection of user data can also be seen as an overreach by private companies for their own financial gain or as an intrusive surveillance tactic.
– Search engines can make money using targeted advertising because advertisers are willing to pay a premium to present their ads to the most receptive consumers.
– When a search engine collects and catalogs large amounts of data about its users, there is the potential for it to be leaked accidentally or breached.
– The government can also subpoena user data from search engines when they have databases of it.
– Search query database information may also be subpoenaed by private litigants for use in civil cases, such as divorces or employment disputes.
So yes Startpage has fallen from grace here and has been correctly covered as to the reasons of why.
Sorry you don’t agree!
Well, WhatsApp director also wanted his product to be privacy-focused… and in the end he and his cofounder left due to pressure from Facebook board, but hey, if you want to use startpage, that is your choice =)
Just don’t be naive enough to think that the same won’t happen, as there are other examples online as well….
Agree @ Just a Guy
Providers typically publish privacy policies in which they pledge to provide you service without them benefiting in any way from your data.
A possible exception would be through very abstract research, or nebulous performance benefits that might attract more customers to their product.
History has shown that the overwhelming majority of providers of free services that carry interesting user data have eventually failed at keeping this promise – either by being compromised or by accidentally using the data anyhow.
Apologies may ensue, but a users trust never returns.
In addition to this, no privacy agreement stands up to a court order to hand over data in bulk.
It so happens that the US legal & intelligence climate frequently does in fact use subpoenas and national security letters to hoover up user data.
It should also be noted that specifically US law affords far less privacy protection to “non-US persons“ than the already meager protection of privacy provided to American citizens.
Also, US law extends to all servers and services operated by US companies, so (“hosting data in Switzerland” say as example) does not provide protection if the operator is American.
Relying on a privacy agreement as some kind of indubitable guarantee of privacy is not grounded in history nor in legal fact.
I would also add that nothing changes in an acquisition…until it does.
Anytime there is a merger, the company being bought will almost always be brought into line with the parent company.
It’s not naïveté; it’s actually a very reasoned decision. Startpage and its managers has a LONG track record in the field. Users should be very careful before they run off to unproven competitors.
What I suspect most of the people commenting on this topic don’t understand is how investment contracts actually work. Just because System1 owns a majority of the stock does NOT mean they automatically have control over everything. It’s actually possible, by using different share classes and/or clauses in the corporate bylaws, to have an arrangement where a minority shareholder or executive still retains control over some or all operations. Without disclosing the entire deal (which I wouldn’t, either), Startpage’s CEO has given assurances that the contractual arrangement gives him and his management team this level of power over privacy decisions.
So really it comes down to this: so you trust Robert Beans and the other Startpage founders? If you do, then you should trust that he has represented the contract terms fairly. If you don’t, then you never should have been using Startpage in the first place. Either way, it makes no logical sense for anyone to CHANGE their view of Startpage based on this.
There is no reason to trust Startpage now.
They sold out and basically tried to obfuscate.
There is nothing wrong with selling out but please don’t try to convince us the values remain the same.
Hello Sven
You’ve over looked changing Startpage as the #5 spot people see for Private Search Engine < Privacy Tools&Solutions < restoreprivacy.com
Please still do offer a #5 position and consider Infinity Search as a candidate to others.
Thank you Sir
Yes, on the homepage, I just replaced it with Swisscows. Thanks
Thank you.
I see Swisscows documents itself well compared to the field.
SC throwing in the family-friendly aspect to the returned results of searches made. Has to be parents, churches, schools, and a library’s best friend in offering a child safe environment, is the feature bake in or adajustable.
https://swisscows.com/en/about#family-friendly
Should there be a raised hair of concern in SC, as I see it states to operate both a search engine and advertising provider.
Seen under ‘Linking’ here https://company.swisscows.ch/en/vision/data-protection
Would that be a warning flag?
Then isn’t it similar of case where in advertising rooted to the owner was the stimulus for such as the harsh look at Startpage, Sir.
Thoughts ; )
@Hardsell
As a parent and Christian, this is a very happy and acceptable factor. It really ranks high on my appreciation list.
As far as I can tell, it is baked in and cannot be changed. At least I have not found a way to turn it off.
As far as advertisements, It doesn’t bother me as it is not search result driven. Anyone can be advertised if they want. It dies cost but it puts your banner at the top. It helps them and that is fine as far as I see.
Hope that helps.
Hello M.D,
Yes I appreciate the family-friendly search, pardon me as didn’t mean to convey otherwise.
I just wondered if they made it adjustable, in that smart kids could override it, and where an adult would not want to use it.
I’m remembering some school trips over the years as a young lad in to the main metro’s intercity here.
Like a philharmonic concert school’s outing and because of the area in the heart of big city and the one-way streets there.
Our many buses load of kids had to passed by the front of an adult entertainment business (strip club) to get into the parking garage for the concert.
Unlike all the other tall buildings, this one’s bottom level was lit up and colorful with a huge lady’s image similar to vegas showgirls in ads.
That is my earliest memory of something just for adults and though I didn’t see it more than a minute and a half of scarcely a couple of times.
I remember it more clearly than any concert the school had us attended.
So yes an internet’s search without the trash of adults littering up the results page is pleasant and very well needed for our youth today of the internet’s age.
Something to serving as to the youth factor, like a designated bike lane on the roadways for Adult motorized vehicles.
Thank you.
Hello Sven,
No, I haven’t ran down the advertising end’s purpose as of yet to Swisscows search being of association in Hulbee AG.
https://hulbee.com/en/about/products/web-search
I am seeing a different refinement using present day tech and an idealism basically in it’s concept to offer privacy services to the world.
I see it has mentioned-
“Swisscows is also available as an advertising platform for SMEs and, in this way too, it aims to offer an alternative to the overly powerful search engines.”
[whatever the advertising platform for SMEs – is I don’t understand]
and
“Swisscows.ch was developed by the software company Hulbee AG, which is based in Egnach (Thurgau).
[Egnach is a municipality of the district of Arbon in the canton of Thurgau in Switzerland.]
Hulbee AG was founded in 2008 in Switzerland and has a subsidiary for sales and marketing in Germany and a wholly-owned subsidiary – Evrikon GmbH in Russia – which carries out research and development for its parent company.”
https://www.startupticker.ch/en/news/june-2014/swiss-software-company-hulbee-ag-launches-smart-and-secure-search-engine
Off the cuff – we go from a Switzerland based search company, to a Germany subsidiary for sales and marketing, to a Russia wholly-owned subsidiary in research and development.
How interesting…
The actual linking of the top down owning entities behind Swisscows (in ownership/shares/purpose/duty) shown in a graph would be nice to see it in that way of visual perspectives to peoples understanding.
Going on the premises that – Data collection and Advertising go hand-in-hand to hurt any consumer more than actually helping them staying private in any means.
Swisscows has taken a path letting people know that all rocks have been overturned and veils lifted to best be informed in a personal use of Swisscows search.
The advertising tie may be only of this- https://company.swisscows.ch/en
-under Business model
“Swisscows is financed by advertising revenues and other services.
Because Swisscows does not monitor users and thus does not save or pass on user data either for themselves or for others, Swisscows has developed its own advertising concept.
The concept is a software technology called AdAnounce that works similar to Google AdWords technology, with the important exception that user data is not passed on to the advertiser.
In addition to advertising revenues, Swisscows also makes turnover with software projects, technology licensing and plans to provide additional software and hardware services.
All these services guarantee privacy.”
https://company.swisscows.ch/en/products
Secure mail service:
https://mail.swisscows.com/en
https://hulbee.com/en/about/products/mail-swisscows
Any of this information help Sven, as it’s where I’m stopping in my looking and I’d say it’s a two-thumbs up ^ search engine to consider for anyone looking.
Deae Sven, you have changed my whole life since the first atricle I read on restoreprivacy.com. I hope you won’t fail us all one day as startpage did, we trust you and personally I feel safe online when am walking behind you. Thank you dear Sven.
Dogpile.com search engine is linked to System1 LLC.
Clicking it’s PP opens to this – http://www.infospace.com/terms/privacy.html
System1 LLC respects your privacy …..This policy also applies to our subsidiaries Infospace Holdings LLC and Qool Media Holdings LLC.
Thumb-down v
–
Ecosia, a search on ecosia.org we forward the following information to our partner, Bing: IP address, user agent string, search term, and some settings like your country and language setting. Ecosia is a “privacy friendly” search engine. We take user privacy very seriously. We plant trees using search profits. https://info.ecosia.org/privacy
Speaks of (no link) fine print? See the in-depth legal version of our privacy policy.
Neutral – though is it a real search engine or guise? Website collecting adsence
–
THESE Two per / Restorer – Nov 18th post
–
Infinity Search could be a good one to me, very clean the way I like it .
Our service is funded by non-tracking advertisements. We are also developing a pro version that is a desktop application with custom setting and no advertisements.
Infinity Search Privacy Policy – https://infinitysearch.ai/privacy
Information Collected:
We use Fathom Analytics to monitor site traffic. This service allows us to get site usage metrics while also respecting the privacy of our users. It tells us how many people are using our website but doesn’t store any information about who the users are and it doesn’t install cookies to your device.
Information Not Collected:
We do not collect or log data about the individual users who access this website. This means that we do not log IP addresses or user-agent strings. We also do not use cookies at all, which is one the most common ways that other websites attempt to track you online, even after you have left their site.
Information Shared:
Since we are using third-party APIs to gather the search results, those services can view the searches that we make. They cannot see, however, who made the search because it appears to them as our service making the search.
How We Value Your Privacy:
We value your privacy here by simply never straying away from the privacy policy described above. Our model is designed to respect the privacy of all our users.
Whois
http://whois.domaintools.com/infinitysearch.ai
Thumb Up ^
–
Gigablast – open source search, is one of a handful of search engines in the United States that maintains its own searchable index of over a billion pages.
A lot of power in the hands of a few. It’s a recurring theme on the Internet. Companies like Cloudflare and Akamai, both CDNs, have blocked or impeded smaller search engines from spidering the content on the millions of websites for which they control the security and network logistics.
– It’s also quite interesting to note that Cloudflare is heavily funded by both Google and Bing, and also Baidu. So once you get the dominant search engines actively interfering with smaller search engines’ spidering of the content from millions of websites, it doesn’t really get any more anti-competitive.
This is something I would not expect anyone except a handful of people to realize, as there are not that many people spidering website content for their search engine as I am, but, nonetheless, it is a critical piece of the entire anti-competitive racket orchestrated by the data barons.
https://www.gigablast.com/blog.html
– – The GUY is talented by my standards and he gives a history trial of his life in achievements.
https://www.gigablast.com/bio.html
Also I might note he offers Products and Services for sale.
http://www.gigablast.com/products.html
Thumb Up ^ though it offers more, looks as stuck in time.
Whois – http://whois.domaintools.com/gigablast.com
https://www.predictiveanalyticstoday.com/gigablast/
–
List of search engines
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_search_engines
Thank you HardSell for sharing the info. I see you’re very dedicated on this site.
Concerning Ecosia and other charity-based search engines such as Givero, Lilo and Elliot for Water, I’d say it’s OK to use them for studying, shopping, consuming, as long as you don’t give away too much personal info in the search term. Using these engines divert the ad money from big companies to environmental and charitable purposes as well as maintaining such services. We may need to disable ad blocking for just these sites–but keep using tracking protection, HTTPS, Do Not Track and maybe VPN and Tor.
(Say, is it possible to just whitelist a page for ad blocking but not tracking protection? Not sure..)
One more thing, make sure the ones running these charity-based engines are honest and transparent in their causes.
Hi Restorer,
Thanks for the clarity as these types of the mentioned charity-based search engines do merit in peoples personal considerations.
As you, “make sure the ones running these charity-based engines are honest and transparent in their causes.”
I would go a step further – in the scheme of not for profit / profit for a purpose.
Look at how the donations business overhead affects in any charitable releases of funds, has it a realm of dishonesty, being divided up first in the companies cost to operate. Then paying out of what’s left generally does happens to a cause.
OR
I could see it as has happen here, a blind charity collects donations but only releases 10% collected to the blind cause.
Reasons stated for the shortfall, as the blind charities overhead in their running of the donation service.
*Who sets the pay scale’s of the owner and employees of the donations business.
*Where is the business operated from (home or overpriced real estate) to cause more in donations value being lost, as to a business overhead or it’s cheatinglyness to tap a better life for itself.
– Relatives could be working there or one owns and rents out the property the charity works from.
– A grand lifestyle could be had as a charity ran business, if no regulations are set and in the monitoring of the donations flow and pay out realities schedule as seen of the donations cause.
Thank you.
Agreed. I haven’t dug deep but Ecosia seems legit based on their financial reports and third-party articles discussing such matters. If not mistaken, Ecosia also take into account the success rate of trees growing when measuring the number of trees planted and carbon offset.
The comments section under PIA VPN review are missing but it seem that here is a good place to share some imo negative news for the privacy world.
https://www.kape.com
from it’s official Twitter post:
“#KAPE’s proposed acquisition of Private Internet Access is a game-changer in the #digital privacy sector: http://bit.ly/2r4gQFi
We expect immediate synergies and a greater product suite servicing over 2 million subscribers to underpin our strong future #growth. #infosec”
If the acquisition is official, then it’s “a game-changer in the #digital privacy sector”…
Wow, that’s big news.
Can we please get a post/story on this? I’m a long-time PIA user, and it seems like PIA has been pretty vague and evasive in their responses (actually, quite the opposite of Startpage which has been very candid). Maybe you can get some PIA executives to answer some questions, like how SPECIFICALLY are they PERSONALLY going to ensure user privacy under new ownership?
This is actually a much more relevant and concerning development than anything with Startpage. Startpage has really put forth a solid effort to address concerns and communicate with users. Thus far, PIA has mostly kept everyone in the dark about the specifics of how they intend to protect users going forward, and that’s something that needs to be pressed to get info out of them.
Hey those interested in Giriru,
RAN A SEARCH and I’d found a comment (so hearsay no value),
“Gibiru isn’t a search engine, it is just someone who set up a website using google search to get paid some adsense revenue. Very misleading article. When you search on their site, you are “literally” searching on google.”
The article offered this-
When you submit a Gibiru search, you’ll see “all results” and “uncensored” options. The uncensored option lets you see all results that won’t appear in Google searches – and you may be surprised by how many pages are included.
Gibiru was created in 2009 and has its roots in the hacking community – not big business. It remains a community effort and hasn’t made the transition to seeking external funding. And if you look for alternatives to Gibiru reviews will show that this kind of integrity is quite unusual. So that’s a positive sign.
Gibiru does state-
“Honest Earnings.
We generate our revenue strictly on a commission basis. When our users buy something or place a call to action while using Gibber, we take a commission. We don’t make any money by selling your hobbies, political interests and search logs.”
Care to guess what (call to action) means – I haven’t a clue.
NEWs shows have it as ‘call for action’ for when you report a problem with a company and they air the both side facts.
*Facts in print are scarce with Gibiru search so I’d be careful as I’m seeing US ties in a fashion to the print I’d seen.
.
Wormhole™ Mobile App
A browser less application that allows you to surf the web completely anonymously with absolutely zero record of your searches and sites you visit. When you use the Gibiru Wormhole™, sites you visit are opened and viewable right thru the App.
“all results” and “uncensored” options – Yes all that site hype is good and fine but where is the professional business structure behind the Gibiru search engine, any vetting as they are from a 2009 start. Any audits done or could it be that comment I’d found does have a glimpse of truth?
Owning company: Steven Ray Marshall (Founder, based in San Jose California)
Launch date: 2009
Number of pages indexed: 30 trillion+ (Google plus “censored pages”)
Advertising: Yes
Security features: 256-bit HTTPs encryption, no logging of any kind, no cookies, no data selling, option to add proxy/VPN, no ad tracking, strong commitment to privacy
[https://vpnpro.com/web/gibiru-search-engine/]
Whois Record for GiBiru.com
[http://whois.domaintools.com/gibiru.com]
–
@ vanp give a hand to understand.
I done the Inspect Element from IE11 and Inspect from Slimjet browser, SJ has 3 boxes but IE is better to see texts. The language and code is hard to understand for you – it is for me novice.
I’m getting lost looking specifically for (Q) after the windows open in both, is (Q) something special to reference first and is it part of the text body or tab/column to landmark your view in finding correctly.
– Look at the highlighted info in the box that opens at the bottom of the screen – as you note I do see in IE-
Something as ankle socks I though for a search and hoovered as instructed.
There seem to be alot of google popout but where is gibiru,com in all that?
Thank you all ; )
HardSell, I appreciate the effort you’re putting into this, but The King’s English obviously isn’t your first language, so I’m having some trouble with it. You seem to be saying you don’t completely understand my comments about the highlighted material in the box at the bottom of the screen.
The box is called Web Console (that’s about all I know about it). Searching, for example, on “ankle socks” or “ford mustang,” the highlighted material is only the search term. This is the first time I’ve seen this. The Google reference is right above that. Searching on “reverse search,” for example, the highlighted material is the Google reference.
Now, backing up here, to get the Web Console box to appear, hover the pointer over the heading of any search results entry, right click, and in the menu that opens up, click on the last entry, which says “Inspect Element (Q).” What displays is, I guess, HTML code. It shows whatever it shows, which, with Gibiru, is Google. Don’t know how to say it any more clearly than this. Thanks.
Hi vanp,
Hell I’m hillbilly yes language always messed with me, was thought before voice. Or voice before thought in the first men.
What browser are you on and the the OS – that all it may be it.
I did find lots or Google listed there. Thanks
W10 v1903. Pale Moon, old version of Waterfox, and Cyberfox (now dead).
@Paul
I’m struggling to see the point, why asking StartPage anything in these circumstances? It’s now similar to asking Google do they track their users, a bit funny really. I think it needs time. Independent experts will soon tell us what is going on with StartPage.
@vanp
Same for Gibiru: a common opinion from the wider privacy community is needed here. Also, as Sven would put it, first and foremost it’s about trust .
“first and foremost it’s about trust”
I don’t know exactly how you mean this, but honestly, this is a meaningless glittering generality.
I can trust somebody, but if they’re dishonest, then I’m making a mistake. If the community arrives at a consensus, fine, but I’m not waiting for that. The Gibiru website doesn’t say much, but if I see
“Google” up one side and down the other, I’m headin’ outta town.
Concerning Gibiru–
Earlier this year I switched from StartPage to Yippy. In my research I discovered Gibiru. There’s next to no info about Gibiru on its site. I vaguely remember reading somewhere the name of somebody associated with Gibiru–the founder, I guess.
Do a search on Gibiru. Hover the pointer over the title/first line of any result. Right click. Select the last entry, “Inspect Element (Q).” Look at the highlighted info in the box that opens at the bottom of the screen. Apparently without exception you’ll see the search being handed off to Google. With StartPage “Google” appears only with the ads at the top of the results page. Now, we all know StartPage uses Google, so I’m not sure if there’s a meaningful difference if “Google” appears in that highlighted material or not.
I’m not a programmer and so don’t understand most of what I see in that box, but if I see “Google”, that’s bad enough for me.
Could I suggest that everyone who reads this post contacts Startpage with the same questions as Restore Privacy. I’ve just emailed them at info@startpage.com with the same questions saying that I now have concerns about their integrity and would like them to respond either privately or publicly.
If enough people contact them it might force them to be more transparent.
Hi Paul…
Good suggestion, I just sent them an email myself, although I just asked them to address the concerns expressed in this article and elsewhere. 🙂
To Sven: Thank you for the heads up on this. I’ve used Startpage for quite a while now and have liked their service. I hope the concerns you and others have, including myself, can be somehow allayed.
A.R.D.
@ Bronco,
Hi – I like both your mentions of SwissCows.com and Gibiru.com on first impressions. Though, SwissCows seems more open to advise users of all under it’s belt.
Till I try both I’m undecided as where to move my searching agenda over to.
Thanks
–
@ James,
Hi – thanks for your summary of the 4 you’ve mentioned.
Thanks
@Hardsell
I would recommend Swisscows. They are simple clean cut and I love the family values they promote.
Hi J.M. and thanks.
NOTE: To everyone trying to reply on the RP site.
* Sven’s aware of the issue and is working to correct it.
– Seems – for me it’s on the desktop side as you see here mobiles don’t have the issue, as I’m able to reply. New comments does works on my desktop side But not for any replys I’ve tried to make answering folks. The reply box fails to open.
Your welcome.
Dear J.M.
Please excuse my answering you later in this discussion as to my referencing you as M.D – – very sorry !
https://restoreprivacy.com/startpage-system1-privacy-one-group/#comment-60543
Clearly I’ll multi-task at times and loose my train of thought to at some other times. In researching the subjects I find interesting enough to convey and contribute of knowledge regarding our personal online privacy.
Your replies are important to me as is to correctly address you by your handle here. As that in my information is fact based most part by yet my impressions as I see and understand from this life’s perspective.
Hello guys , I heard some of companies for bad economic are trying to have got money from surveillance companies for mining data , meta data and others , be careful (start page , wiki pedia, Google , Yahoo , Bing , msn , Amazon , some paid Vpns looking ip vanish , keep solid vpn , wind scribe vpn , …)
Good luck .
Hello bic,
Please link to the source.
I’ve been trying to see the overall Birdseye view in how the Internet’s pipeline and being set on the standards for advertising to all connected devices consists in that multi-billion dollar network.
.
The foundation of how devices connect and then whats seen by each device. Has early tracking and id technics moving from a cookies development period to the fundamentals for smart devices connection and expancsion the internet system.
That in turn allowed fingerprinting techniques to each device id and the person with stronger prolonged results.
Advancing tracking and big data’a ecosystem to flourish.
So any links on related info. is greatly appreciated.
Thank you
I use SwissCows, it works just fine for me. Also, Gibiru (which Sven didn’t mentioned) looks like decent option.
Hi Sven,
Thanks for the article – needed for sure as lots of people involved in using this search engine are feeling unsure and uneasy now of it’s privacy stance with this new partnership/ownership being aired.
Startpage is no longer recommended by Restore Privacy – should of been the title of the article maybe…first line in the write up as it’s fallen from grace here as well allover.
–
In the name of advertisement or under it’s label, “a “data science” company that specializes in targeted advertising.”
Wow has StartPage changed, does it all reflect in their TOS and PP policies today – – No as you’ve pointed it out.
I’d be keen to their (wordage/terms) changing there that give holes to a users privacy understanding now in this merger/arrangement? As the privacy focused-mission of StartPage is tainted if nonexistence of their users base today with an partnered business that can quickly scale more revenue from the StartPage users. SIMPLY sounds like GREED!
– Data science (never herd of it), is StartPage now in need of special weaponize intelligence gathering in a targeted advertising use on it’s platform.
*Data science is the same concept as data mining and big data: “use the most powerful hardware, the most powerful programming systems, and the most efficient algorithms to solve problems”. It employs techniques and theories drawn from many fields within the context of mathematics, statistics, computer science, and information science. As a multi-disciplinary field that uses scientific methods, processes, algorithms and systems to extract knowledge and insights from structured and unstructured data.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_science
–
Data collection and advertising go hand-in-hand – BUT these should NOT be used for people that use services geared in/on/to and of the users privacy…
Yep, I changed the title. Good points.
So System1 is a “Pay-Per-Click” advertising company?
If we use adblocking tools like uBlock Origin, will that not keep us safe, so we can continue using the search engine?
Surely it’s only if we click on an advert that our details are in danger of being passed on, but if we block them in the first place…?
If there were third-party scripts on Startpage causing the issue, then you would be able to detect and block them using uBlock, uMatrix or NoScript. But the insinuation here is that on the back end (server-side, not client-side in your browser) Startpage will be recording your information and sending it to System1.
Note: I don’t think whatsoever that is what will be happening, as my other comments on this post make clear. But that is what some are fearing will happen.
I think the problems is that startpage.com don’t seem to be, at the moment anyhow, to be violating their privacy policy or gathering users details and passing them on. There is no evidence of either of these.
Also, there’s no real safe alternatives to be honest either.
1) SearX (searX.me) crashes every couple of searches saying Google is looking for a captcha to be solved, even if you shut all Google off in the preferences. Also the proxy feature is not great.
2) DuckDuckGo is based in the US and located on Amazon AWS servers, which no-one is happy about.
3) Metager.de, according to their privacy policy, records your IP address.
4) PrivacyTools.io own search engine, which is partly searX, again according to the Privacy Tools privacy policy, sends user information to their supplier, Aragon Ventures LLC, which, according to their privacy policy, may be used by their suppliers like Cloudflare, PayPal, etc. They also use Matomo, a site analytics tracker that uBlock Origin and Ghostery blocks.
So…which one ARE we supposed to use for private search? We really do need more help and advise from Privacy Experts on this one. There seems to be a problem with all of them.
I would say Swisscows. I have used them before, loved Startpage’s Anominty view and stuck with it.
I just switched my Android Firefox main search back to Swisscows. I love everything about it so it was not and is not a hard jump.
The only thing Startpage had was that Anonomys view…not worth staying for though.
Look up these engines. I think they’re much better than Google/Bing/Yahoo/Baidu in term of privacy but not worse than Startpage (ie, private search engine owned by ad company). Still, don’t trust any engine 100%. Pardon any error.
1. Swisscows (based on Bing)
Has semantic map where it categorizes results. Family friendly engine
2. Qwant (based on Bing)
Displays rich results such as trending hashtags, people, etc. Uses open maps
3. Mojeek (own crawler)
Pretty good private crawler from UK
4. Oscobo (based on Bing and Yahoo?)
Inspired by Duck Duck Go but it seems result is only one page
5. Gibiru (based on Google)
Sort of run by programmers interested in politics and free uncensored information
6. Yippy (based on Bing)
Powered by IBM Watson. Similar to Swisscows where it categorizes results based on similarities
7. Gigablast (own crawler)
Commendable crawler from US. Might not serve as good as the big guys or even Mojeek but do give it a try and support the little guy
8. Peekier (based on Bing)
Visual-based result. Provides scrollable snapshot of websites for quick glance. Not much is known about the maker except from a forum in hacker news where he/she once made a thread about the engine.
9. Infinitysearch.ai
Newcomer. Can pull results from many engines aka a metasearch engine or search result aggregator. Claims to function by making those searches appear to originate from them instead of you. Might be a better option than using !bangs on DuckDuckGo?
P.S. Do check out searchenginemap.com . It’s made by Mojeek. I don’t work for any of these search engine companies.
There more information here as well:
https://blog.privacytools.io/delisting-startpage/
https://forum.privacytools.io/t/lets-discuss-swisscows-com-privacy-friendly-and-porn-free-search-engine-with-its-own-advertising-concept/1873/
Dammit. 🙁